Twelve O'clock High! [Archive] - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum (2024)

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Ruy Horta

13th May 2005, 19:29

Just finished watching the 1948 classic TWELVE O'CLOCK HIGH!, starring Gregory Peck.

Although I've enjoyed the original novel, and had seen the movie before, I'd largely forgotten the whole story.

Must say that I was thoroughly impressed and pleasantly surprised. The acting was good, the characters more refined than might be expected for a 1948 product of Hollywood. The action is little, but the atmosphere is perfect. Once we get action there is some good WW2 footage mixed in (not always perfectly so, but if you can keep the "accuracy monster" from rearing its ugly head more than ample to suit its purpose).

Although dealing with courage and the realities of war, there is a lot of thinking involved. It almost borders on an anti-war movie at times.

To those of my generation and younger I can really recommend this movie, give it a try.

(bought it in the Netherlands on DVD at less than € 6,-)

John Beaman

13th May 2005, 20:07

Ruy:

I'm glad you enjoyed this. It is, in spite of its age, one of the all time classics. In this movie, Americans, indeed, fighting men everywhere, were depicited as heroic but very human. I.e., one could break down as a result of combat. It was a mold breaker for Hollywood in this regard. Peck is superb. Gary Merrill was "blacklisted" shortly after this by Hollywood during the McCarthy era. Fortunately, his lovely wife, Diana was not.

As you watch the film remember that all the B-17s were real. There were still plenty of flyable ones around in 1949. Paul Mantz, notable stunt pilot (Flight of the Phoenix), crash landed the B-17 in the opening scene. The film was shot in Alabama--scrub oaks and persimmon trees everywhere) and at what is now Egland AFB in Florida. It was too expensive to shoot in England.

The drama of opening scene with Dean Jaeger recalling his wartime service has never been topped! When that B-17 engine cranks up with the blowback--whew........!
John

Ruy Horta

13th May 2005, 20:13

The opening scene in Saving Private Ryan where it changes from present to past is very similar in style, I wonder if Steven Spielberg got his inspiration from this classic.

Indeed the B-17 wheels up is something else!

Jim Oxley

14th May 2005, 00:59

I too agree that it is one of the best WWII movies around. The mood is classic, the atmosphere thick with fear and tension, yet still everyone goes about doing their job.

Very much like it probably was is real life.

Boandlgramer

14th May 2005, 07:13

thanks Ruy and John, i will try to get the movie.

fsbofk

15th May 2005, 01:50

The story told in the book and movie is based on the challenges of leadership in the real 306 BG. The character of Frank Savage is modeled after General Frank Armstrong, who commanded the 306th in January and February 1943. Even the fictional "918th Bomb Group" is derived by multiplying 306 by 3.

fsbofk

23rd May 2005, 05:27

Also, you might recall the famous crash-landing scene near the beginning of the movie, and the description of what co-pilot "Cobb" endured in getting his B-17 back to base. His experience is based on the actual ordeal of John C. Morgan, co-pilot in the 92 BG's Ruthie II, during a mission to Hanover on 26 July 1943. Morgan was awarded the Medal of Honor that day, as described on page 64 in Freeman's "The Mighty Eighth."

dna9656

29th January 2011, 18:00

I just finished the book, great book, much more descriptive of air combat than the movie. The promotion from Sgt. to MSgt. seems a bit over the top in believability but it is fiction...
The mix of airplane and human parts flying through the formations really got to me...

dna9656

30th January 2011, 07:17

Any movie can be interpreted as "Anti War", just look at the bad stuff that happens... Just remember the most anti war people around are the poor sons of moms and dads that have to fight it. Heroes are nothing more than normal people doing what they can (have to do) in extra-ordinary circumstances. That's why most all the people I knew that wore valoric decorations were usually pretty shy about the whole situation. You might find the citation that accompanied the award on a wall (the famous "I love me wall") some where but all in all it's not something bragged about.

Ruy Horta

30th January 2011, 09:57

Perhaps anti-war is the wrong way to describe what is in effect a more thoughtful stand on war, as opposed to the glorification of war or the more common glorifying of the hero (or the glorification of violent action, which seems to be a theme in many modern action movies).

Twelve O'clock High! was surprisingly sophisticated for its time and stands out because of this extra quality. It is a shame that today most TV companies seem to prefer to air modern B- and C- rated (TV) movies over cinema classics. It was in the 70-ies and 80-ies that I saw most of the classics and unfortunately I was either too young for much of that time or it is now too long ago to remember the details. I'd love to see those classics again with today's eyes, what **new** drama and excellence to discover.

...and don't start me on coloring B&W movies and footage, which I find almost as hard to stomach as the current "docu-kitch" produced by Discovery and History, which is based on a lot of reenactment and little (quality) narrative.

Perhaps it is easy to romanticize the past, which I don't, but I often think we are becoming less sophisticated (read dumb) instead of the other way around, by rule of the lowest common denominator.

Sorry for the OT-ish rant :)

Welcome to TOCH!

Maximowitz

30th January 2011, 15:35

....which I find almost as hard to stomach as the current "docu-kitch" produced by Discovery and History, which is based on a lot of reenactment and little (quality) narrative.

You are not alone in hating that particular theatrical device Ruy. A pox on it, "history-lite" for those with short attention spans..

Carl Schwamberger

6th February 2011, 20:08

For several decades this movie was used as a training film for officers by the USMC. After OCS the newly commissioned 2d Lts go through a 5-6 month Basic School before they go on to their specialty training as pilots, infantry leaders, tanks or whatever. As part of the leadership training we watched the movie, then had to analyze it for the roles the key officers in the film played and their mistakes. I still recall clearly some of the lessons in that instruction segment. There was a suprising ammount of good instructional material drawn out of the story about leadership techniques.

I found years later that after I'd read a lot about the US regular army officers in the 1920s & 1930s I understood the unwritten backstory behind the senior officers, the generals, colonels, & Lt colonels in the story. When you understand their background you grasp better the difficult task they had in turning a vast pool of reservists, volunteers, and draftees into a real combat force in barely four years.

Mark E Horan

10th March 2011, 00:51

How can you beat the classic scene after so many of the ground echelon, having qualified as aircrew in secret, sneaked aboard several of the Groups aircraft and General Savage (Peck) found out and cornered Stovall (Dean Jagger:

Savage: "Ya hit anything up there Harvey?"

Stovall: "Well sir, my glasses were frosted over some, but I think I got a piece of one."

Savage: "Ours, or theirs?"

Carl Schwamberger

10th March 2011, 03:25

How can you beat the classic scene after so many of the ground echelon, having qualified as aircrew in secret, sneaked aboard several of the Groups aircraft and General Savage (Peck) found out and cornered Stovall (Dean Jagger:

Savage: "Ya hit anything up there Harvey?"

Stovall: "Well sir, my glasses were frosted over some, but I think I got a piece of one."

Savage: "Ours, or theirs?"

Major Stovall's best line was "I've never heard of a jury convicting the lawyer." A cute joke there, but underlying it & the scene was the fact that a commander cant excuse himself from a mistake due to bad advice from subordinates. Both Savage & Stovall understand there that if Major Stovall is wrong it will be Brigadier Savage that pays for it.

Nokose

6th April 2011, 22:55

I saw this movie but it was way after the TV show that was inspired by it. The show ran from 1964-67 (3 seasons). It starred Paul Burke as Colonel Joe Gallagher the CO of the 918th BG. I remember one episode of a B-17 commander who was out for revenge for a certain area of Flak going to a target for the destruction of his friends. In the show he broke formation and bombed it. It seems there was in reality a island covered with flak batteries in the war that the Allies did bomb.

Carl Schwamberger

7th April 2011, 00:46

I saw this movie but it was way after the TV show that was inspired by it. The show ran from 1964-67 (3 seasons). It starred Paul Burke as Colonel Joe Gallagher the CO of the 918th BG. I remember one episode of a B-17 commander who was out for revenge for a certain area of Flak going to a target for the destruction of his friends. In the show he broke formation and bombed it. It seems there was in reality a island covered with flak batteries in the war that the Allies did bomb.

Revenge or off the cuff bombing of anti aircraft artillery positions was not uncommon. I've read description of USN dive bomber pilots diverting against the AAA positions after the leading aircraft hit the planned target. In another case A group of B26 bombers in 1945 had a bridge as the primary target, the leading squadron dropped the bridge instantly & the group commander radioed for the following squadrons to hold their bombs & attack the alternative target. Enroute to the other bridge the leading squadron took heavy losses from a cluster of German FLAK guns. The squadron leaders plane went down along with several others. The trailing squadron commander narrating this saw the leading survivors release their bombs, & miss the target, their pattern precisely covering a FLAK battery just beyond the bridge. For a bomber group of their experience missing a bridge by 1000 meters was unheard of & the narrator thought it clearly intentional.

Nokose

7th April 2011, 15:53

Yes, but I think the point that was being made in this episode was the mental state of obssession by this one pilot because of this area. Along with the fact that he broke formation to do it (basically 1943 before deep escorts). Oh, the pilot character in question got shot down afterwards by flak I seem to remember. I was 11 at the time the show was on the air :).

Mysticpuma

3rd May 2011, 15:59

I managed to find a low-quality clip showing the amazing crash at the start of the film....just incredible and when you think now, about "Health and Safety"......Blimey!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tieZKOnvVeY

Cheers, MP

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Twelve O'clock High! [Archive]  - Luftwaffe and Allied Air Forces Discussion Forum (2024)

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